Proof that the General Record Office is a for profit Corporation



GRO dun & bradstreet

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Answers to the ten questions from the GRO recieved 09th May 2015


The email is copied here as received except the name of the officer which I deliberately omitted.

===========================================

Clive-Albert,

Thank you for your email. I hope the information below answers your queries.

In England and Wales, the law covering the registration of births is the Births and Deaths Registration Act 1953. Section 1 of that Act says that…

Particulars of births to be registered.E+W

(1)Subject to the provisions of this Part of this Act, the birth of every child born in England and Wales shall be registered by the registrar of births and deaths for the sub–district in which the child was born by entering in a register kept for that sub–district such particulars concerning the birth as may be prescribed

This therefore provides that all births should be regsitered (your question 4).

In terms of whether or not someone has to have a name (your questions 1, 2, 3 ), registration legislation make this provision about the registration of a birth:

The details to be prescribed are shown in subsequent regulations (currently the Registration of Births and Deaths Regulations 1987). This sets out the layout of the current birth register entry, one of the spaces for which is space 2, “name and surname”.

The regulations do not insist that a “name” (which they define as meaning a person’s forename(s), ie excluding the surname) is entered, but does provide that a surname be entered, that being “the surname by which at the date of registration it is intended that the child shall be known” (that information being given, as I said in my first email, by the parents when they attend the register office).

If a name (forename) is not entered at the time of registration, it can be added later up to twelve months after the birth if the parents wish and have evidence of this.

In practice, of course, people can choose (as in my first email) to be known later in life by a name different to that shown in their birth registration entry. They could even choose not to have a name at all if they wished, although one could imagine some practical difficulties with the latter choice.

Your question 5  : there is no copyright of the details in the entry, as I mentioned in my first email.

Q.6 – can information be removed from the entry: the entry cannot be removed. If it can be demonstrated that there were errors made at the time of the registration (eg the wrong place of birth) then there are procedures to correct the information, but this is done by means of a marginal note in the entry. Any correction to a name would need evidence provided that showed that the child was being known by the (presumably amended) name around the time of the registration – the registration is not updated to show any names taken on later in life.

Q7 : a birth certificate can be used as supporting evidence in support of an application for eg driving licence, passport.

Q8 : I’m not sure what you are referring to here. Are you using the birth certificate of someone else? If not, I don’t see how you are in breach of the warnings?

Q.9 : presumably not, if you were using your own birth certificate in reference to them

Q.10 : I’m not sure what you mean by “reversing the status”. You are not obliged to hold a passport or a driving licence, for example (unless you wish to travel abroad or drive). But that doesn’t change you as a person. I’m assuming here that in application for these sort of documents you have simply provided a certified copy of your own birth entry, in which case there’s presumably no problem?

I hope this is useful

Name Omitted
GRO/LRS Engagement manager
Civil Registration

Her Majesty’s Passport Office, General Register Office
Room 205, Smedley Hydro, Trafalgar Road,  Southport  PR8 2HH
E: name omitted@gro.gsi.gov.uk
http://www.gov.uk

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GRO/LRS Engagement Manager – Ten Questions About The Name


For the attention of
GRO/LRS Engagement manager

Civil Registration,

WITHOUT PREJUDICE OR MALICE

Again I thank you for the quick reply to my question’s which has triggered more of the same and I hope you
will be kind enough to answer as I think you would agree that we the people must ask the hard questions of
our public servants so as not to fall into the trap of ignorance and to ensure the people of this Island keep
our sovereignty in tact for all that will follow after us as is our duty to them and the landmass we all dwell
upon.

I have 10 questions that I am sure a man in your prominent position can answer otherwise logic dictates that
you would not be in that job would it not?

Also just a technical point of order, It is my wish as a man that you address me as Clive-Albert because
my research suggests that there may be a problem with using the name in its fullest form and I am not
yet fully satisfied that the premise of using it is not fraudulent therefore it follows that until that doubt
is cleared it is not my wish to use the name if it’s use is fraudulent and will cause harm.

  1. Please can you show me the law/act/ or statute that obliges all living men and women to have a name?
  2. Where is it stated in any law/act/ or statute that a name must be registered?
  3. What is the worst that can happen if a name is not registered with the local Registrar’s Office or indeed
    any Registrar’s Office in the UK and why if we are all free born?
  4. If parents cannot by their own free choice take the decision to register the product of their union
    in the system then how are we free?
  5. If the Birth Certificate is merely a recording of the event and you are only ever entitled to copies of
    the recorded information which in and of themselves cannot be altered, who owns the copyright to
    the original information that was recorded with the Office of the Registrar General?
  6. Can the original information be removed from the Register?
  7. If you use the certificate for ID purposes such as National Insurance Number, Driving Licence and/or
    Passport does this correlate with the warning?
  8. What are the ramifications of not heeding the warning and does this affect my status?
  9. Does it mean my National Insurance Number, Passport and Driving licence were obtained
    fraudulently?
  10. Can I in any way reverse the status by my revoking all administration obtained with ID via Birth
    Certificate which held this warning?

I would appreciate a response to every question within ten (10) working days otherwise I will assume
that there is a problem and that these questions highlight the problem going on in this Country today
after all you should be able to give a true and honest answer to all these pertinent questions because
of your position in the GRO.

Regards

Clive-Albert,

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GRO answer to my question regarding copyrighting your name


Sorry everyone I proof read this post several times and did not spot the glaring formatting error caused I believe by Notepad which did not carried over to WordPress to well, so apologies for that. Lesson learned do not copy from facebook straight to Notepad and onto wordpress it messes the formatting. I was also in a hurry to go out with my spouse which did not help as I really did not take the time to check the post once it had been posted to wordpress.

I have more questions to ask the GRO which I will be sending shortly and in full transparency I have to state that five of these questions did not come from myself but from a living man on face-book.

The following information was given to me on “face-book” about a rule known as “Blank forms rule” which at the time of sending my original email and follow up to the GRO I was ignorant of.

The “Blank forms rule is a principle of copyrights law that blank forms are not copyrightable.

Blank forms are not protected by copyright if they are designed for recording information but do not themselves convey any information. The blank forms rule, first articulated in

Baker v. Selden, 101 U.S. 99 (U.S. 1880), is codified at 37 C.F.R. § 202.1(c) (1982).

Although blank forms are generally not copyrightable, there is a well-established exception where text is integrated with blank forms. Where a work consists of text integrated with blank forms, the forms have explanatory force because of the accompanying copyrightable textual material.

[Bibbero Systems, Inc. v. Colwell Systems, Inc., 893 F.2d 1104, 1106-1107 (9th Cir. Cal. 1990)]”

Now this is US Law but we have determined that the Birth Certificate system is not confined to UK and it therefore follows that the same copyright law applies. Therefore, they are not copyrighting the blank certificate per se.

I made enquiries of the Registrar and they said they were registering the “event”. If that is indeed the case, then the information contained within the document is what is copyrighted because it is clear the blank form cannot be.

The Registrars are very selective in the precise wording they use but fundamentally if you took a blank birth certificate you can clearly see it is designed for recording information and in and of itself it does not convey information. On that basis, I am satisfied that the information contained within the birth certificate, once completed, is copyrighted.

Here is a list of questions numbered 1 to 10 that I am going to send to the GRO in a short while, these are hard questions so it is entirely possible that they will not be answered.

  1. Please can you show me the law/act/ or statute that obliges all living men and women to have a name?
  2. Where is it stated in any law/act/ or statute that a name must be registered?
  3. What is the worst that can happen if a name is not registered with the local Registrar’s Office or indeed any Registrar’s Office in the UK?
  4. If parents cannot by their own free choice take the decision to register the product of their union in the system then we are not free, true or false?
  5. If the Birth Certificate is merely a recording of the event and you are only ever entitled to copies of the recorded information which in and of themselves cannot be altered, who owns the copyright to the original information that was recorded with the Office of the Registrar General?
  6. Can the original information be removed from the Register?
  7. If you use the certificate for ID purposes such as National Insurance Number, Driving Licence and/or Passport does this correlate with the warning?
  8. What are the ramifications of not heeding the warning and does this affect my status?
  9. Does it mean my National Insurance Number, Passport and Driving licence were obtained fraudulently?
  10. Can I in any way reverse the status by my revoking all administration obtained with ID via Birth Certificate which held this warning?

 

——-Below is the email received from the GRO ——

 

Dear name omitted,

I am not sure about trademark law. If you were seeking to use a name as a trademark (and how you would go about that) I can’t really advise.

However, in terms of the use of names for birth registrations, a name cannot be copyrighted or trademarked – that is, someone else is free to come along and choose the same name to be recorded in a birth entry without being in breach of any copyright. So, for example, parents may choose to name their child Harvey Nichols or Laura Ashley, despite the fact that there are companies out there trading under those names.

Some people, if they decide to be known by a name other than that recorded in their birth registration, decide to take out a Deed Poll and lodge this with the Supreme Court of Deeds at the Royal Courts of Justice. But this only provides a record that person A is now known by this new name (and preserves a documentary link between the former and the new name). It does not copyright or trademark the name concerned.

I hope this is helpful.

Best wishes

Name omitted
GRO/LRS Engagement manager
Civil Registration

Her Majesty’s Passport Office, General Register Office
Room 205, Smedley Hydro, Trafalgar Road,  Southport  PR8 2HH
email address omitted
http://www.gov.uk

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My reply to the GRO reference the email below;


Dear  Name Omitted,

Thank you so much for the very quick and concise reply to my email which dispels the
rumours going around that the name is copyrighted.

If I understand correctly I am free to copyright trademark my name in full, by use of
a sworn affidavit before a commissioner of Oaths and record that document in the
National Records Office which will then stand as law provided it is not rebutted within
the allotted time?

An answer would be appreciated and if no answer received I can assume that my
understanding is correct.

Regards

Name omitted.

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Reply to my email regarding The Birth Certificate Copyright


The following email received today from the General Records Office which clears up the rumours that the name is crown copyright.

Dear Name omitted,

 

Thank you for your email, and I hope the following helps to explain the position.

 

Crown Copyright applies to the form of the paper certificate, ie the layout, watermarks, security features and so on. It would, for example, be a breach of copyright to present a different form as a certified copy of a birth, or to amend the information shown in the boxes and portray it as having been on the original certificate issued from this office.

 

That is why the first warning (relating to offences) is printed on the certificate.

 

Under present legislation, any person may order a copy of any birth record (not just their own), provided that they can identify the entry and pay the relevant statutory fee (currently £9.25). That means that just because person A has in their possession a certified copy of a birth, it does not follow that the certificate actually relates to the birth of person A, and in that sense it should not be regarded as evidence of identity.

 

That is why the second warning (relating to evidence of identity) is printed on the certificate.

 

Each birth certificate is an exact copy of the details of an entry in a birth register. That means that it is evidence of an event (ie a birth) that has taken place and of the information recorded in the birth register when that birth was registered. A birth certificate can therefore be used in conjunction with other evidence in support of a claim of identity, but it is not by itself proof that the person holding the certificate is the person named in the entry.

 

In terms of the use of names, the birth register records the name which the informant at the registration (usually the mother or both parents) have told the registrar it is intended that the child be brought up in. That is all that the register shows: it is not updated to reflect any later change of name later on in life. Any individual is free to decide to be known by another name if they wish. And in any case,since the information relating to the entry itself (including the name of the child) is not covered by Crown Copyright there is no question of any breach of copyright in using the name recorded in the entry.

 

I hope this helps to clarify.

 

With best wishes,

 

Name omitted for data protection etc.
GRO/LRS Engagement manager
Civil Registration

Her Majesty’s Passport Office, General Register Office
Room 205, Smedley Hydro, Trafalgar Road,  Southport  PR8 2HH

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Email to the General Register Office in the UK


Due to recent developments about the legal name I may have to take down a few pages tabbed at the top of this blog because if this information is true then I cannot copyright my name even if done using common law;

Following these developments and watching the video’s put out by Hannah Rose on http://losethename.com/hannah-rose/I took a leaf out of Hannah Rose’s book doing my due diligence and emailed the following to the Head of GRO:

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To the head of GRO,

WITHOUT PREJUDICE

At the bottom the birth certificate there is a statement which
reads as follows;

CAUTION:  THERE ARE OFFENCES RELATING TO FALSIFYING OR ALTERING
A CERTIFICATE  (C) CROWN COPYRIGHT

ALSO

Warning: A CERTIFICATE IS NOT EVIDENCE OF IDENTITY.

These statements have been brought to my attention and I need
clarification on meanings of these two statements and why we
have been encouraged by government and all it’s agencies to
use names which on the face of it looks as though they are
Crown Copyright.

Because of the possibility of breaching Crown Copyright I am
not going to use the full name but use my given name which
I believe is not copyright which also needs clarifying.

Please reply in substance to this inquiry as it is of the utmost
urgency because on the 7th May there is going to be a general
election where everyone voting will be using there copyrighted
name and will be committing mass Copyright fraud.

If I receive no reply within the next seven days (7) days then I
have to assume that the name is Crown Copyright and that
everyone should stop using it.


Clive-Albert

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It will be very interested to receive a reply, I don’t expect one but who knows. If I receive a reply
I will of course put it up on the blog for everyone to see.

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